The Rule of 24?

Reply

The Rule of 24?  

  By: Tyler F on Oct. 24, 2019, 7:46 a.m.

I saw this pop-up up on my feed. I'm curious about what the GSA tribe experience is with this? How many of you are under a ratio of 30?

http://www.golfwrx.com/574766/the-rule-of-24-how-to-shoot-low-scores-like-a-tour-pro-without-changing-anything-in-your-game/?fbclid=IwAR0hsDAHvCxxGlhAFy4OpZP-bcM65w-Z9_yLBRF9pl5MJOOV0Eajt24mdl8

Reply

Re: The Rule of 24?  

  By: Ed C on Oct. 24, 2019, 11:09 p.m.

+Tyler F

Here are my numbers:

Average Drive: 245 yards
Course Length: 6300-6500 yards
Ratio: 25.7 - 26.5

Reply

Re: The Rule of 24?  

  By: dawilson on Oct. 25, 2019, 7:09 a.m.

+Tyler F

Here are my numbers:

Average Drive: 275 yards
Course Length: 6100 yards (home course) up to 6800 yards at other local venues
Ratio: 22.2 (home) up to 24.7 (away)
GIR's: average about 11 or 12 (home)
Handicap: about +1 (home) about 5 to 8 (away)

Dave

Reply

Re: The Rule of 24?  

  By: John C on Oct. 25, 2019, 9:20 a.m.

+Tyler F
I am probably in the minority here and I'm OK with that. Golfers all play the game for different reasons, being outdoors, enjoying friends, getting away from life stressors, and if we hit have more quality impacts than usual then that's a plus. I'm more drawn to hitting good golf shots and if I can hit a couple of quality long irons then I've had a very good day. My driver carry is 250 yards and I find playing courses of 6500+ the length I enjoy the most. I find this yardage gives me the opportunity for longer approach shots and more opportunity to challenge my short game. This is my idea of "fun" on the golf course. I am a "retired" PGA member and love to work on my game (now that I have time) and still love to compete. Currently I carry a scratch handicap and hope to be able to shoot my age soon.
John

Reply

Re: The Rule of 24?  

  By: Barry C on Oct. 26, 2019, 7:28 a.m.

+Tyler F
Same as Ed C. 245 avg. Thanks for sharing Tyler, maybe a good basis for having a "tour" ball so some of the classic courses can be competed on again.
Barry

Reply

Re: The Rule of 24?  

  By: Lani H on Oct. 28, 2019, 9:27 a.m.

+Tyler F

Average drive – 205 yards
Course distance – 5200 - 6000
Ratio – 25.3 - 29.25

However I find that the author's 2 assumptions to be flawed. I think it is highly unlikely that there is a linear relationship between how far someone can drive and their score, I think the equation needs some kind of offset. And his second assumption that there is a direct relationship between score and fun is just....sad.

Reply

Re: The Rule of 24?  

  By: Tyler F on Oct. 31, 2019, 9:04 a.m.

+Lani H There have been a number of studies done that do show a linear relationship between driver distance and handicap. Most of us quote the one presented by trackman.

However, I do agree with your second comment about score vs fun. There are a lot of different ways that golf can be fun apart from shooting a personal best score.

Reply

Re: The Rule of 24?  

  By: dawilson on Oct. 31, 2019, 12:50 p.m.

+Tyler F
>>There are a lot of different ways that golf can be fun apart from shooting a personal best score.

You'll have to teach me that trick sometime ;-)

Reply

Re: The Rule of 24?  

  By: Vasco C on Oct. 25, 2019, 6:36 a.m.

Here are my numbers:

Average Drive: 209 yards
Course Length: 6680 yards
Ratio: 31.96

Tyler do you think the 30 ratio is the minimum required to be scratch in terms of stroke distance?

Reply

Re: The Rule of 24?  

  By: Ed C on Oct. 25, 2019, 11:13 p.m.

+Vasco D

This is a really interesting question...here are my two cents:

- 300 yards: average PGA Tour driving distance
- 9,000 yards: "new" PGA Tour course length
* 30 ratio *

If a PGA Tour course is 7,200 yards (avg. 400 yards per hole), a 9,000 yard course would be 100 yards longer per hole!

Strokes Gained data from Mark Broadie's book gives us this as a reference:

500 yards: 4.41 strokes
400 yards: 3.99 strokes

So increasing the hole length by 100 yards would add 0.42 strokes for a PGA Tour player, per hole. (I quickly checked the course stats on the ZoZo Championship, and the strokes gained figures in Mark Broadie's book (table 5.2) do roughly correlate with Rd 1 of ZoZo).

Bottom line, I suppose if PGA Tour players played at a 30 ratio, their average scores would go up by ~7.5 strokes per round.

 Last edited by: Ed C on Oct. 25, 2019, 11:49 p.m., edited 2 times in total.
Reply

Re: The Rule of 24?  

  By: Tyler F on Oct. 31, 2019, 9:09 a.m.

+Vasco D There will certainly be outliers, but let's use some stats to back our thoughts.

According to strokes gained a few years ago, 168 yards is where a professional golfer averages the same number of bogeys and birdies. For them, that's typically a 7 or 8 iron. If you consistently have a hybrid into the green, I think it would take some ridiculously good short game to get enough opportunities for birdie to counterbalance the number of bogeys. I think Ed gave some other good relevant strokes gained stats. But to answer your question, 30 is probably a good bet. Most top tour pros carry a handicap around +5 to +10 depending on how hard their course is. So adding 7 shots to that get's you close to a scratch handicap.

Reply

Re: The Rule of 24?  

  By: Frisco P on Oct. 25, 2019, 6:49 a.m.

The take-home message (I think) is that people need to be more realistic about how far they hit the ball, and play further up than they think they should. This is assuming the goal is to *enjoy* the round of golf. There's an unfair stigma amongst men in particular that playing it forward is a sign of weakness, and that needs to be undone. I carry the ball 295-305 (sea level/90 degrees) and have the most fun when I play around 6000 yards for scoring practice. In contrast two of the four courses I regularly play tip out around 7600 and those days are purely an exercise in mental stamina. I'm not sure why so many guys think they need to play back. :)

Reply

Re: The Rule of 24?  

  By: Tyler F on Oct. 31, 2019, 9:11 a.m.

+Frisco P I agree. I had a lot of fun playing shorter courses and learning to attack compared to when I got treated to play championship courses and had to work on my ability to grind. I think that's part of the rationale behind the quote about tournament golf and recreational golf being two totally different games.

Reply

Re: The Rule of 24?  

  By: Todd M on Oct. 25, 2019, 7:43 a.m.

Average Drive: 285 yards (very pleased with my 299 yard average in yesterday's round at Stanford)
Course Length(s): Usually play tees between 6,600 to 6,800 yards
Ratio (using 285 avg drive): 23.2 - 23.9

Reply

Re: The Rule of 24?  

  By: Jules C on Oct. 25, 2019, 9:38 a.m.

Guess I'll be the contrarian for the moment, then post my numbers. I think you have to start with the concepts of golf and golf course. A golf course is not just a plot of land divided into holes that are defined by tee boxes and greens with holes into which flags can be placed when unplugged. One could hit golf balls with clubs on such terrain, but that doesn't make what one is doing playing golf. Golf courses are designed around an architect's goals and intentions, presumably driven by some conception of the distinctive character of what it is to play golf, why it is interesting to people to play it, what is exciting, mentally as well as physically demanding of it, and much more. I have played lots of courses, but regret to say that too few are designed by architects who understand golf, or rather, are the joint efforts of architects and others (housing developers, resort owners, business persons, etc.) with complex and not always fully compatible goals. If you take a well conceived golf course of any sort, and then just mark off distances back from the green to a place that represents a 'doable' ratio for this or that golfer, you may be hitting balls on a golf course, but you are not playing that golf course. You are engaged in some other activity. I am not denigrating that activity.
On the other hand, hacking one's way around a well designed golf course from the existing set of tees is a nightmare for many of those who play those courses; and it is fair to say they are doing something on the golf course that involves swinging clubs and sometimes hitting balls, but rarely constituting playing golf.
There has to be a better meshing of the two concepts -- playing golf and doing so on a golf course. there are several possible solutions, none of them fully satisfactory or likely to work financially or otherwise. Architects can build courses that are much shorter (given the aging golf population) that are loaded with character and test the relevant skills, etc. This can surely be done as some of the best courses I have played have been 9 hole par three courses. There is a particularly good one in Scottsdale, AZ. These can be expanded in design to include one or two par 4s and even a shortish par five. Problem is golf courses are expensive to build and one has to sell the golfing public on the desirability of playing those courses rather than Shinecock Hills and Oakmont. I have been a serious and at one time top flight amateur golfer my entire life, and have played both of those courses twice and they are not enjoyable: period. For anyone. Shinecock is for people who have the mentality of those who work at Goldman Sachs, where the joy is in the battle and everything is war.
There are executive courses everywhere, but the fact is it looks like most players need to play even shorter courses. It would be worth uncovering data on how many executive courses there are, where they are located and their relative success.
The next possibility is to change the golfer's mentality and expectations. Good luck.
Here's a solution I would think worth investigation: recalibrating par to reflect distances that people actually hit balls. The same hole would have different par ratings. Take a 280 yard hole. For those whose driving distances exceed 300, this is a long and probably relatively unenjoyable par 3. For me it would be a very short par 4. For others it would be an average par 4; and for still others a demanding par 4. Take a hole of 425. For a pro it is a shortish par 4 depending on other factors. For me, it would be a very demanding par 4; and for lots of others a par 5. For me once a hole got above 460 it would be a shortish par 5; and so on.
One might object that the handicap system already does precisely this. I disagree. There is all the difference in the world psychologically and emotionally (which I believe will translate into performance) between a handicap which indicates a 'failure to measure up to the standard' and a recalculation of the standard that has as a consequence turning the failure under one description to a success under the other. And given how much more fluent we are at analyzing and collecting data, there is no reason not to experiment with a more fine-grained formulation of 'par' on a given hole.
There is another step to take that has more to do with reducing time of play and increasing enjoyment as such. Every course should adopt a rule that each golfer (who is a member or a regular) must begin playing the course from the shortest existing tee boxes until he or she can break 80 or 85 regularly. At that point only, the person gets to move back to the next set of tees and so on. the process reverses as the player's capacity to break 80/85 decreases.
My approach to playing golf courses has been as follows. I am now 72 yrs old but am quite fit if not quite as strong as I once was (which was never that strong to begin with. In my hey day, I was say I was Mike Reid long :-). I played the championship tees at all courses up to7k yds until I was 60; then moved to the Blues up to 6700 yds (sometimes mixing and matching to make sure I didn't exceed that by occasionally playing a hole from the whites or members tees) then at 70 I started playing by distance overall. I play a variety of tees when necessary to make the course interesting and to keep it within my sweet spot of between 6100-6500. I just don't enjoy playing longer because I am not putting enough of my clubs to use. I know pros are playing for money so they want to hit as many wedges as possible. I'm really good with wedges, but I am not playing for money or a livelihood. I have a similar lack of interest in hitting 3 hybrids or fairway woods into every par 4. So I mix and match and sometimes play holes from tees that make it very hard for me to reach a green in 2 on a par 4, cause it just makes golf more enjoyable that way. But playing a course with a half dozen 420-445 par fours, not so much fun.
I dread the inevitable day when I will feel that way about courses with holes between 380-400 though I know it will come. But for me, I want to play the golf course for as long as i can as the architect imagined it would be with challenges intact and strategies required.

Driver: 215 (on east coast where roll is something that happens on the greens only more often than not)
Length of courses: 6100-6500
Ratio:
I don't think in those terms. I want to play course length where I can aspire with work to keep my handicap in mid single digits.

Reply

Re: The Rule of 24?  

  By: Tyler F on Oct. 31, 2019, 9:15 a.m.

+Jules C I loved playing executive courses. There was one in southern California that I played often when visiting my brother. It was in great shape with a lot of character and offered a variety of shot options on each hole.

Subscribe now for full access to our video library.