Starting my self-coaching journey

Hi Andrew,

The first time posting your swing is always the scariest.

I think you're on the right track with the body stuff you're working on. I think you'll want to complement some arm training to help make it easier. Specifically, it looks like you have a pretty strong lead arm pull-through impact. See the pictures below. The left arm looks like it's pulling down and behind you, which kicks the club out (that's one of the causes of your steepness and fat shots). If the follow through position, you can see how down, close, and externally rotated that lead arm is.

Try looking at the "block the trail arm throw" https://www.golfsmartacademy.com/golf-instruction/block-trail-arm-throw/
Or the Moe Norman drill - https://www.golfsmartacademy.com/golf-instruction/moe-norman-arm-drill/

If that's too much to do concurrently, then work on the body for a few weeks before circling back to the release arm training.

You've got a bunch of really good pieces going on, so I think tightening up a few of the release/impact feels will go a long way for you. Good luck!

Happy Golfing,

Tyler

Yes, sounds like you're likely on the right track.

Often times that arm pull move is tied to power, so when you swing full it will be more likely to creep back in. At least initially. Keep ramping up the shorter swings in terms of length and aggression.

https://www.golfsmartacademy.com/golf-instruction/wipe-with-aggression/

Maybe this will help

Tyler

The moe norman can definitely help, but to answer your question, no the over-the-top move can come from a handful of causes.
The most common causes of over-the-top are:
- Spinning the shoulders instead of turning the hips
- Pulling the left shoulder blade too hard or too early
- Rotating the trail shoulder into internal rotation before impact.
- Turning the shoulders too level (not enough trail side bend)

If it's happening really late (below p6) then it's likely the arms, the side bend, or not enough spine extension through impact. It's less likely the spinning the shoulders in transition option.

So if you're still over-the-top and the arms aren't steepening then you want to look at the body movements as well.

Thanks, Tyler. If I had to guess I'd say my OTT is mostly coming between P5 to P6, which got me looking at my shoulders as you mentioned. I'm aware of Spinning the Shoulders vs The Core and Don't Spin The Shoulders, and very much try not to spin them, but they usually do seem to spin, especially between P5 and P6.

After taking a look again on video I noticed that both shoulders are in protraction for pretty much all of the swing, which due to very high shoulder mobility, I can still get my trail arm/shoulder into a lot of external rotation even at max protraction. I watched Shoulder Blade Shallowing, and I'll try to keep that trail shoulder retracted, my next question then is does that trail shoulder stay in full retraction through impact?

I think your steepening is primarily a lack of ulnar deviation, but the side bend (aided by the shoulder blade retraction) could help either way. It doesn't appear most golfers get to max retraction, nor stay at the max all the way through the release, but it stays there well into the downswing.

The attached photo is when it looks to me like you've missed the unhinge window.

The second video is one of my favorite views for the shoulder blade.

Oof, I knew my lack of understanding about ulnar deviation was going to catch up to me, because I've kind of just ignored it until now. I've seen almost all the unhinge/ulnar videos, and understand them conceptually, but have just never been able to work it in to an actual swing. I guess I just don't understand how to apply the force in an almost perpendicular direction once the club and clubhead has significant speed (ie Ulnar Down, not Down the Plane).

Up until now I've essentially been trying to fake it with a DJ style wrist bow which naturally limited the radial, with varying levels of consistency/success. I guess I need to go back and force myself to really work on the T-Rex Unhinging drill.

It almost seems like one might need the intention to start unhinging from the top so you aren't fighting clubhead momentum coming down the plane (which is a thought/system I know Monte Scheinblum espouses in his No-Turn-Cast system)?

Edit: I've been working the past couple days on ulnar deviation and the right shoulder retraction. Keeping the shoulder retracted is very different, but I can already see a huge change in that it requires me to use the body a lot more and keep turning. I think I used protraction as both a power move and extension to reach the ball, keeping it back requires me to just keep turning. It does kind of feel weak, but I guess that's to be expected if I used the opposite for power previously.

I'm still struggling with ulnar deviation/unhinge though. It seems very difficult to unhinge once the clubhead is in motion. I can hit the ball great with preset unhinge, but if I try from the top and once I get the clubhead moving it becomes difficult.

Can you post a video of you trying the unhinge? as well as the presetting it? It'll be helpful to see the difference.

But yes, your question (I don't understand how to apply force in an almost perpendicular direction once the club has speed). The key thing here is that you are currently applying force more horizontally (which is why you are steep). So we are just trying to get you to apply force on plane instead of above it. So you won't actually be applying the force vertically, but it will be more vertical, and thus on plane.

I'm not familiar with Monte Scheinblums No-Turn-Cast system. But I think unhinging got a really bad wrap in most golf instruction from a misunderstanding of the look of lag. So it could be similar

I guess that's my disconnect from your video Ulnar Deviation, Down not Down the Plane, because in that video it's discussing unhinging in a purely vertical downward direction while the clubhead is on a diagonal momentum down the plane, or am I just completely misunderstanding what is where and when in that area? You did mention that I'm far more horizontal, I'm guessing that's my very laid off at the top position causing that?

Preset: https://link.getonform.com/view?id=NAS2h98euyCJ2uoxZyHr
Fuller swing: edited out

Edit #2: I tried doing some real swings with the feeling you mentioned above of trying to make ulnar somewhat down the plane, and then trying to turn and supinate through. The last swing is probably the best at getting full unhinge. Definitely introduced some early extension and a poor top of backswing position, but is this at least the right track for coming down the plane to unhinge?
https://link.getonform.com/view?id=spUkTwgDkydBLvRDqMvE

It's almost maybe like a two stage release? Like when approaching P6, the momentum of the club is more down so when the hands start to move up, it helps unhinge moving the clubhead down (but not down the plane) and the continued turn plus supination brings it to the ball rather than hitting the ground outside your trail foot. So stage 1 of release is loss of hinge, the second stage is loss of trail wrist flexion through impact? If any of that incoherent rambling makes sense.

Related note: As you can probably tell, I often overanalyze and I end up diving down rabbit hole after rabbit hole. If I wanted/needed to supplement my self-coaching with a few in-person lessons to try and reign that in, do you have anyone you could recommend in the Chicago area? Looks like the closest GSA certified coach is in St Louis, unfortunately.

In the video on unhinging, I talk about the unhinge moving the club downward and the body rotation moving it outward. So they balance to help create the swing plane. Since yours is steep, you need more up and down movement to be "on plane". Your two options for up and down movement are the unhinge, or torso tilt (side bend). So we could work on adding a bit more side bend tilt, but yours doesn't look too bad. I think the bigger opportunity is the unhinge.

The hardest thing in the online coaching is getting a student to exaggerate the movement as much as needed. So here we can see in the impact screenshot how much lower your handle is compared to golfers with appropriate unhinging. When you do it correctly, it's going to feel like the club is vertical. Like the handle is directly over the golf ball as you're hitting it. See the attached picture. Can you do too much? Can you get it where the shaft is actually above your right arm? Even at a really slow speed.

We are growing the certification program, so hopefully we'll have someone in your area soon. The only coach I knew in the Chicago area was Richard Franklin, but I believe he moved to Arizona.

As far as your description, I think more than 2 stage, it will feel more gradual and less held on (stiff) at impact. But I think the positional feel of the club feeling completely vertical at impact will be the closest likely feel.

Happy Golfing,

Tyler

So I've really been playing around with trying to get to this position, while also keeping in mind your note about how all my force was coming in horizontal with little to no vertical. I just couldn't really do it from where I was at the top of the backswing, the only place for me to go was horizontally because my hands were so far behind me.
Playing with some vastly some different feels and trying to go back to the classic clubhead down the wall feel, I could only get that happening if I used vastly less hand depth at the top, which also created more vertical in my downswing. The video below is a little 1/3rd speed swing trying to feel less depth and more clubhead down the wall. It definitely helped get more unhinge, and a ton of shallowing. Though I realize I probably overdid it and lots of other flaws /compensations since it's still so foreign. Is this less hand depth on the right track? I know some depth is necessary, but I think I was overdoing it before with my hands well behind my heels at the top? Or maybe it not less depth, but less arm overrun.

https://link.getonform.com/view?id=URh4IRaek8uTg01Z9ozD

I think as a playable compliment, working on the top of the swing might be easier. But as you said earlier, as long as you avoid ulnar deviation, you'll have to deal with balancing the compensations. So I'll try a slightly different image, If you look at the Dustin Johnson pic again, we're going to look at the angle of the golf ball to shoulder. I drew a line. My challenge is to see how close you can fill that space. If you look at yours, you'll see how much space there is because of your hand height. You might feel the arms/shoulders higher, and you might feel more ulnar deviation, but the goal I'd give you is to basically get closer to that straight line. So it's pretty easy to monitor progress by looking at that line from DTL on video. Check out the recent video I posted on the hands forward, out, and UP.

Depth and shallowing will allow you to get away with less unhinge, so if you really decide this isn't the right time to work on the unhinge, then that's a fine plan B to go after.

Tyler

Working on getting more ulnar deviation and reducing that gap has been very difficult, but I think I've finally made a little progress. It feels like I have to control the swing a lot more with my lead shoulder position, by bringing it up and away from the ball with my turn. The feel is almost just getting my arms up in the back, letting the club head start to drop/shallow until it's near parallel with my shoulder plane, then rotate through. In my rehearsals, I basically try to get a completely straight line from my lead shoulder socket through my arm and club to the ball. Can't achieve that at speed, but it seems to help. I still have a touch of steepness in these, but I think I can work with that with just a bit more patience in transition. Am I on the right track?

DTL: https://link.getonform.com/view?id=lCnM2PLb0LuttXcmyn2J

Looks like it's going in the right direction. I'd try to get the unhinge to happen earlier. Also, from face on, we might be able to see if your cheating with axis tilt. But you're getting more of it. In the impact picture, you can see more of it. The delivery position picture is when we want to see more of the unhinge starting to take place.

I noticed in my videos working on this I often had my lead arm disappearing behind my trail shoulder, and just generally coming across the ball a lot, which got me thinking I've been spinning my shoulders too early. So I went back and really tried keeping my shoulders closed (from a top down perspective) as long as possible and it seems like it made a major difference in how I was able to deliver the club with the proper ulnar deviation. My trail forearm is now often at a much shallower angle than the shaft at impact.

Unfortunately, I didn't manage to get a front on video to see if I'm cheating with axis tilt, will try on my next practice session. The sawed off stop was because I was trying to mix in some of your latest gravity release drill.
DTL: https://link.getonform.com/view?id=nZNO7F8Tfp6GHdCDZ8im

I definitely think that arm position is better. Like you mentioned, check to make sure that you're not cheating with too much tilt, but I don't think you are based on that video. I could be wrong, but it looks like an improved pivot. Your rotation appears to be less of a pull of the left shoulder and more of a rotation of the core. I like the train of thought. Let's see where this idea takes us :)

So follow-up question, working through this I think I realized that lead shoulder blade retraction has been one of my subconscious big power moves, which explains my perpetual steepness. In the video I posted earlier, it really felt weak, like I had held my shoulders in place and got really armsy in getting them too the ball. Which makes sense new moves always feel completely foreign.

But, I guess my question then is does the shoulder pair stay fully closed through impact and beyond (lead shoulder blade remains protracted, trail shoulder blade remains retracted). So essentially getting the arms moving is more deltoids and less lats. Or is getting the arms to the ball entirely core rotation dragging the arms through with shoulders remaining closed.

We don't have data on the shoulder blades, so the exact timing is tricky at best. I think if you look from down the target line, you can get a good sense of what the shoulder blades are doing. If the lead shoulder pulls, then that adds a steep. so golfers who have more of the lead shoulder pull have to add an extra shallower to help balance it out. But yes, I do think some really good ball strikers tend to retract the shoulder later (even after impact).

Well I'm back after a break due to some overtraining related injuries. As I revisited the Block the Trail Arm Throw I think I realized something about my swing. In an effort to maintain width, I've realized that I've always kept that lead shoulder in full internal rotation (elbow down) because it gave my arm an extra 1/2" of length that felt like the maximum width. As you mentioned, this lead to the lead arm pull and trail arm throw. So I've really been trying to focus on keeping the lead shoulder into external rotation (elbow out) to prevent that lead arm pull steepener. It has been very tough breaking that pattern since it just feels so bizarre.

In one rep I think I've figured out a feel that might work for me though. As much as I'm not a fan, because it's almost Bryson-esque in approach, it seems to work. Essentially try to max out lead arm external rotation at address (and keep it that way), and in then transition try to pre-max out lead arm supination (combined with motorcycle move) so I can just swing my lead elbow at the target. Keeping the lead arm in max supination seems to really help reign in my other tendency of over-radial deviating (since I have very high wrist mobility, I can get in a lot of trouble with this). It has also very much lowered my VLaunch, as you can see how low the ball hits the impact screen with the 7-iron.

Below is a DTL video trying this feeling with what felt like 9-3's, but in reality are probably closer to 11-1's.
https://link.getonform.com/view?id=YT0bSLoTgCWakcTG7hMy

"Elbow in" would be external rotation (losing in arm-wrestling), Bryson is maximizing internal rotation at setup with the lead shoulder("elbow out").

Welcome back, Andrew.

I agree that it's a tough habit to break for some patterns. But it can pretty transformative too. One of the complimentary patterns to the arm stuff you're working on (internal rotation and ulnar deviation) is more of a component of vertical movements vs all rotation.

If you look at the practice drills you're doing, your core tends to keep moving downward all the way past impact. So you end up in a position where your arms are left and low because of the lack of ulnar deviation and shoulder lift. Compare that to two videos of Collin and Justin. In the stock model, your core should be moving up and away from the delivery position to the follow-through position. In the little snippet of your swing I clipped, you should be moving up with your core and straightening the lead leg right away,

So, a complimentary move to getting ulnar deviation and width at the bottom is the vertical movement driven by the turtle shell (moving your abs away from the golf ball instead of towards it). https://www.golfsmartacademy.com/golf-instruction/turtle-shell-abs/ In trying to get this connection of vertical movement to arm extension, I would play around with some timing from this drill https://www.golfsmartacademy.com/golf-instruction/connecting-leg-arm-extension/

I don't think you need to focus on the legs as much as the core, but the timing in this drill would be really good for your pattern.

Thanks, Tyler! Going over what you've been saying about the release and the relation of the vertical and lack of shoulder lift, I realized that I've really just been faking a lot of this until now. As I am now trying to understand it, the vertical component and shoulder lift causes a lot of the ulnar deviation early (starting around delivery position) and then the flexion to extension release while moving through impact. And to keep the club somewhat on plane while doing that the turtle shell abs to keep space and the right shoulder lower than the left.

So my new thought was to try and work backwards from an impact position with full ulnar deviation ( trying to achieve a straight line from shoulder through wrists to clubhead, ie fill that gap you mentioned much earlier). Essentially I was trying to figure out how to get the my wrists to move into that ulnar extended position without actively forcing or holding wrist movement. What I think I discovered is that the lead shoulder lifts the hands to cause some of that ulnar (club head keeps going down, hands up). And, if I try crunch the abs and keep the right shoulder lower than the left, I can create a ton of space and keep the club (somewhat) on-plane without getting way over the top.

This is a slowish swing speed of me trying this new feeling as a proof of concept. I know there's a lot of other faults I've introduced here (like not enough lateral shift causing low point behind the ball issues, lack of depth etc).
https://link.getonform.com/view?id=OdnbXwjVQVi3JC29YqDw
Edit: Video #2 after working on this a bit more:
https://link.getonform.com/view?id=xpvCt03cWcxOflZzngtT
There's this weird feeling that's very different when I do this. It makes it feel less like I'm rotating the entire swing, and more rotating just enough to clear my left side, then a strong forward linear thrust/punch of my right side through the space where my left side was. That punch movement of the core then finishes extending the lead leg and lifts the lead shoulder. I'm guessing that I may have inadvertently discovered your intent/feeling of your Pelvic Punch video?

Is this a little bit more how I should be viewing the release?

Tiger once said, "First I understand it better, then it looks better, then it feels better. Then it performs on the range, then on the course, then in a tournament".

It sounds, and looks, like you're understanding it better. Like you said, not 100% there, but definitely getting more of a classic look at impact with some space and arm extension (these are both great for helping control shallowness and depth).

I like the orange shirt. Rotation looks similar but the vertical movement is much greater and better timed. Trail shoulder is lower too. Sometimes we have to recalibrate movements (like rotation, or arm height) where it's more useful initially to look at how the swing looks rather than how it feels. Yes, sounds like you stumbled upon the intention of a couple of drills, like the pelvic punch.

Keep it up!

Tyler

Whew, this has been tough to figure out, but I definitely feel like I'm on the right track. Your new video today was pretty timely, as that's sort of what I've been working on. I've really been trying to use the vertical of the lead shoulder to pull the handle upwards and cause that release, but that did require reframing how I saw the golf swing. Right now my new current feeling is sort of like pull-starting a lawn-mower with my lead shoulder, all while attempting to keep my right shoulder aimed in a line at the ball.

One thing I think I've noticed that I think I need to get my right hip forward (toward the target) sooner (almost like a hip thrust at the target)? That requires me to keep some at least some of my pressure on that rear foot so I can use it to push. Sort of like I have to skate-push my trail foot back and away towards 7 or 8o'clock (12 being target). I seem to stall and collapse if I get too much pressure (like 90%+) too soon on that lead foot. I might have over-compensated my pressure shift as a result of watching all those AMG and Swing Catalyst videos without understanding the sequencing properly.

Definitely also still need to work on ulnar deviation, I think I may be getting too much of my shallowing from the rear shoulder. I don't really feel any trail arm supination in the downswing at all, which I gather I should be doing more actively.
Edit: Ooh, I think I made a discovery with one of my challenges with arm shallowing. If I keep my trail elbow more neutral at the top of the swing, that little elbow bump in front (external rotation) in transition combined with a little trail wrist supination it really gets the club head moving back and behind me. I think previously I had basically been maxing out my trail arm external rotation at the top of the swing, didn't leave me with anywhere to go with it in transition.

This is some of my latest practice. I'm still really having difficulty maintaining the feels when swinging from a dead stop, hence the rhythm drills.
https://link.getonform.com/view?id=3q61mMnWfsapK1kWFx5q

The timing is still a little off. Your brain wants to continue moving down into the ball too long. In the screen capture I'm posting, I pause when you should be triggering the up movements. You'll see it's much earlier than you're doing in your rehearsals. I do admit that this is a tricky one to crack. Because it's tied to the power source.

For seeing power source items, often the face on view is more useful than the down the line.

And yes, you're right about ulnar deviation. The up movement with the body and the ulnar deviation should complement each other. The still picture to me looks like you've missed the window for ulnar deviating and are going to have to make a shoulder compensation through the release. Overall, impact is looking better.

So I've been working on nothing but the release and ulnar for the last week and a half and I think I've made another realization. One of your videos on supination mentioned that the supination right before impact was caused by the extension of the arms at the end of the wipe, and wasn't a conscious turning over of the wrist/forearm. I'd kind of forgotten about the extension aspect of the wipe in my recent practice.

So if I'm understanding this correctly, the lead shoulder movement starts to cause the unhinging ulnar deviation of the wrists somewhere just around delivery position (P5.5-ish). Doing nothing else this could cause the unhinging of the wrists and cause the club to slam down heel first into the ground behind the ball with a wide-open club face. But in the process of the wipe, once you extend trail arm, this causes the supination that closes the clubface into impact. Essentially your Unhinge then Supinate video. If I'm on the right track, I think then I just need to get over my fear of that open clubface and hitting the ground behind the ball, and start to allow that unhinging at the right time and trust that the extension of the trail arm will close that club face into the ball.

Below is a short video of me practicing the unhinge and slowly working in the extension to supination.
https://link.getonform.com/view?id=OKAr9h7dgX8fbWYGylK1

Edit: been working on this a lot since posting. I think I've realized that I need more of a horizontal component with my lead shoulder. By that I mean I think I need to not only lift that lead shoulder, but move it away from the ball at the same time, ie maintaining the spine angle, rather than excessive right side bend which gets my shoulder plane to near vertical. Or that's just a day to day feel that prevents the lead arm pull, which does seem to be one of my more recurrent negative tendencies.

Edit: Also apologies about the many long-winded stream of consciousness posts. I'm a verbal processor, so these are as much my self-coaching journal as they are seeking feedback.

Hey Andrew,

No worries on the long posts. Knowing how you learn is half the battle!

Definitely making progress. I'd be curious to check in on a face on view of one of these shots. But the impact lines are starting to look better. I still think the ulnar deviation and the vertical body movement is a little late, but it's getting much better. See the attached impact position picture. It's come a long way. And yes, I think you're describing the timing of p5.5 as the trigger for the verticals accurately. The wipe would show up better from the face on, so maybe we can check in there next.

Keep it up!

Tyler

I think I've finally understood high hands from your video "Hands Forward Up and Out" in today's practice session. It's almost like I'm raising my left arm (in relation to my chest) when my hands pass the ball and into impact, which is the exact opposite of what I've been doing until now. I think part of my 'power move' came from pulling my arms down even through into impact, which prevented me from properly releasing the club. And I think as a side effect it got some of my sequencing a little better (on some but not all of these). In some of them I was able to get my lead leg into full extension before impact, rather than after. I really need to play around with this some more before it gets too cold to practice. My new current feel is to feel like I'm using my lead leg to rip my lead shoulder back and up while I'm raising that left hand through impact while maintaining the flex in my trail wrist.

Edit: The arms need to raise up from delivery to impact, because the only alternative is either stalling the body or if maintaining the relation to arms and spine, the arms moving down and in as the body continues to open and you move into side bend.

DTL: https://link.getonform.com/view?id=Bhfn0FdrQ0rXut77Ccz4
Face On: https://link.getonform.com/view?id=xIwCppxd40tDv5fZsRrC

I think one of your key descriptions, "I think part of my 'power move' came from pulling my arms down even through into impact, which prevented me from properly releasing the club".

I agree, I think that's a very common issue for golfers to overcome. The arms are in a great place to pull down, but that causes some complementary movements that hurt consistency.

The only point I'd add to your commentary is that the arm raise feeling should continue into follow-through position, not just delivery to impact.

I'd post screenshots, but I'm on the road and the files you posted are too big to download at my hotel.

Well I'm back after recovering (mostly) from a minor knee surgery and these brutal Chicago winters. Been tough getting back into the feel of things, but I think I've made some progress lately again. Looking back a lot of my videos, I noticed that I always stalled my upper body from delivery to impact. I think because somewhere along the way I had ingrained that lead arm pull, so I stalled the upper body to let that arm pull into impact.

At the same time I've really tried to soften my wrists so that I could have a more passive release. So combining the two, I've really been trying to use pivot to "tow" the arms and wrists into a position where they release at the ball. It requires way more upper body turn than I used to use. Or more rather just actually finishing turning the upper body through the ball.

So, I think I'm really onto something with the swing thoughts in the latest video: start upper body rotation on an angle closed to target, "tow" passive arms and loose wrists at ball so wrists start to release through ball.

https://link.getonform.com/view?id=r1316CfraCcbK3tzA14f

Those winters can be brutal, you sure you're out of the woods (or snow?) Which knee was operated on. Face on video is better for seeing knee stability restrictions more than DTL.

Yes, sounds like you're on to something. The stall is from the pivot stopping which almost always accompanies the right shoulder/blade throwing or the left shoulder/blade pulling.

I've filmed a video recently that I think will help a lot of people understand the shoulder blade connection to the stall. I think for you, a goal is to continue to work on acheiving maximum radius width of the lead arm through the release (I think the relaxed arms will help). But it's also relaxing it into a direction that is lengthening and pulling away from your body instead of pulling across your body (or low left)

Those winters can be brutal, you sure you're out of the woods (or snow?) Which knee was operated on. Face on video is better for seeing knee stability restrictions more than DTL.

Yes, sounds like you're on to something. The stall is from the pivot stopping which almost always accompanies the right shoulder/blade throwing or the left shoulder/blade pulling.

I've filmed a video recently that I think will help a lot of people understand the shoulder blade connection to the stall. I think for you, a goal is to continue to work on acheiving maximum radius width of the lead arm through the release (I think the relaxed arms will help). But it's also relaxing it into a direction that is lengthening and pulling away from your body instead of pulling across your body (or low left)

I wish I was fully out of the woods, structurally my right knee is fine (meniscectomy), but I've got some kneecap tracking issues that continue to dog me and limit my physical therapy and golf practice.

I watched your recent Pin the Lead Shoulder video a number of times and kept going back to the feeling of a low sidearm throw. This caused me to start playing around with some of my pressure shift sequencing and think I've found (or likely rediscovered) a feel that I think is working well. When going back to my baseball days, and practicing that sidearm throw, I always plant on my lead foot earlier, ie load trail side, shift forward into a firmly planted lead foot, then turn just into it as if it were a sturdy pillar. This is opposed to more of the jump feeling where I more gradual/soft loaded into the lead leg then try to jump with it.

What's different this time is I started thinking more with my right side rather than my left. Previously, I always thought about my left side of the body as I pressure shifted, which I think caused my upper body/shoulders to spin out too early leading to my OTT. So like your Connecting Unhinge to Body Rotation video, I'm trying to think of it like a T-Rex forehand tennis swing, rather than left handed backhand.

So now I think re-center mass, plant into a firm lead leg then just sidearm/submarine throw with the whole right side. It seems to help keep my shoulders closed during that late transition period. It also seems to have made speed a lot more effortless, I didn't test on a launch monitor or anything yet, but I can tell from the impact sounds that it has ratcheted up a gear but actually felt vastly less effort.

Though from watching the videos I might have over done it with the amount of pressure shift, as it looks like I'm getting to the Scottie Scheffler level of 100% on the lead side with the trail leg dragging, rather than a little more balanced like most other pros.

Face On: https://link.getonform.com/view?id=2e1MgwUsR7madJd05IYd
DTL: https://link.getonform.com/view?id=ITzJrzvoA7cj6KqDDeo0

Looks like you're on to something. It's definitely the best your impact position has looked, arm height is much better and the release is more shallow. So the positions are good. That said, the follow through position gives me a little concern for consistency. That left arm is pulling back and down and the arms are moving quite a lot through that post impact interval. I'd try to do some more long arm finish moves to help feel the body driven release and less of a flash of speed down at impact.

So in that follow through, I'd like to see less rounded ribs/shoulders, left arm straighter and above the right. This all comes from the right shoulder blade staying closed longer and the lead shoulder blade staying up (blocking longer). For many, this move creates the need for more of the leg action you described in this post.

Good luck,

Tyler

Is this a little more in the direction with less rounded ribs/shoulders? I'm trying to rotate a little longer here, and get a little more right tilt from the pelvis and not all from the thoracic spine. The feel is trying to have a passiveish right hand in-line with my right shoulder, and then just trying to hit the ball with that right shoulder as the trail arm wipes. I was definitely able to achieve the most ulnar/unhinge of any of my swings thus far, in this one. There's also noticeably more space between my arms and my body at impact.

edit: As I play around more, I think I need to focus on maintaining more axis tilt. I think one of my problems that also affects how I can release the club, as well as keeping passive arms, all comes back to my upper body drifting forward as part of my recentering/pressure shift movement. If I really focus on maintaining my upper body back (head in the same spot) so that I maintain some axis tilt, it seems like the release happens much more automatically as the left arm raises sooner allowing the wrists to unhinge. Going back and watching some of my old face on videos, I can see how often my head drifts to want to be on top of the ball, despite it being forward in the stance.

Edit 2: Haha I'm an idiot, all my practice swings 6" above the ball has screwed me up. I realized I just now that I've been keeping my torso at the same level as the practice swings but then have stall and lower my arms so I can reach the ball. Just trying to keep head closer to the ball through the whole swing has allowed me to keep turning without having to stall my torso and to lower my arms to get to the ball.

DTL: https://link.getonform.com/view?id=cU4BtBgOeZtykzoB2kam

Edit vid 2 DTL (get low stay low): https://link.getonform.com/view?id=mXialjBB162RaJdhoUma

The roundness of the ribs is pretty hard to see from down the line. But it does look like you're making progress.

Comparing the posture in the two pictures. Yes, I slightly prefer the more recent one.

Our weather is just turning toward spring, hopefully you're have the same shift and are able to get out and play some too!

Ok so here's a question. I keep going back to working on getting proper unhinge to maintain arc width as I don't think I've ever really been able to fully ingrain that. Watching "Connecting Unhinge to Body Rotation" and "Unhinge Then Supinate" I understand that the unhinge needs to start around P5.5 or so. As I play around with different ways of moving in that downswing area to get unhinge passively, I always seem to get more (and easier) when I maintain the height of my trail hand (ie don't let the trail arm extend). If I let the right arm extend (downwards) in that region of the downswing, it lowers my hands, which prevents full unhinge. So, am I right that into p6-p6.5 I shouldn't let my trail arm extend (much) so it retains enough height to allow the momentum to get the clubhead below the hands? I realize that the arm will probably have to extend somewhat, but I mean this more a feeling to keep the hands high.

Feels can be very individual, but my guess is that your unhinge isn't going to feel passive. It's going to feel active. But one thing that could make it feel less active is more of the thoracic extension (chest bump). That gets more vertical pressure which helps with the unhinging. So it'll feel less rotational with the upper body through impact and more of a feeling of extending. That can help the arms pull less around as well. Looking at your last face on video, that could be a good compliment to the arm motion you're working on. That would also help the arm straightening part of the puzzle. You don't want the arm to straighten early (so feeling more bend could be okay), but never straightening can cause a whole host of other problems. So one big key is to be able to extend the arm, with ulnar deviation and extension. And that system is encouraged by the vertical movement of the lead leg and the pivot of lead side of the body.

I think I'm on to a new feeling (god, you must be tired of hearing that day in day out) that I think is going to help some of the roots of my problems. I think I had some of my sequencing off and started my vertical components far too late. Previously, I'd often feel like the low point of my handpath was well after P6, past my trail thigh even, before I started raising the hands.

Playing around with some new feels, if I really use my legs to drive my lead shoulder up much sooner as if somewhere around p5.5 to p5.7 was my hand low point, it seems to allow me to just guide my wrists into impact rather than having to do any manipulation. I think it also seems to allow them to start unhinging earlier. It also feels like I can have vastly less wrist tension through impact. The whole release now feels like I'm lifting and fanning my passive(ish) hands through the ball.

I realize that the low point isn't actually at p5.5, but the feeling that it is seems to allow me to get everything started sooner. I do need to work in some of that chest bump though too, as I am very hunchbacky from sitting at a desk all day, which probably doesn't help.

I'll have to keep practicing this feeling some more and get some video later.

Edit: This isn't the end-all feel. It definitely helps, but I think I've also identified that I don't have enough (or any) supination in my release. Which is why I'm subconsciously holding on to some of the radial, so that the clubface remains square as I come into impact. I think I need to keep with some 9-3s only for a week or two just to try and get over that fear of the open clubface from the unhinge. Your free swinging supination drill has me realizing how much I've been holding on to that wrist. Going to keep drilling in this feel whenever I can stand up from the desk.

Funny. I don't get tired of it, but I do keep it in context. I've learned from my students that feels can change dramatically day-to-day and the same "feel" can look different in sequential days. So our feels need frequent checks and calibrations.

I think your feelings are matching the data better. In general, people are late with their forces. And with your videos, it's looked late. So feeling vertical earlier might be a good feel for you.

Yes, oftentimes in lessons, I feel tremendous tension during the release. Getting some free swing is a good feel for many. One phrase I use, I want it loose, but not floppy. Good luck!

So another question on a feel I've been toying with for a while for transition. In one of your videos on ulnar deviation, you compared the swing to a tennis top-spin forehand, and another video with a horizontal baseball-esque swing in Horizontal Swings are Shallow. These got me thinking about transition feels. If I think about a transition with a tennis racket or baseball bat that's upright (perpendicular to the spine), the first move that starts the swing is two-fold. You start a pressure-shift towards your lead foot, and at the same time start laying the bat/racket down onto the plane you intend to swing on, typically through a combo of trail wrist supination and trail shoulder external rotation (also with a fair bit of unhinge). The wrists/arms almost act like a transmission/clutch partially disconnecting the club from the power source until it's laid down on to the proper plane when speed and tension is picked back up from the rotation and engages the club. Then once the bat/racket is on the correct plane, typically the shoulder plane, you've established pressure on the lead side and just rotate the hard into impact maintaining that plane. Matt Wolff's swing seems to be a very extreme version of this played out.

It almost feels like I'm getting the clubhead just below my trail shoulder and keeping it there while rotating.

Edit: While working on this I think I discovered what I needed all along for ulnar deviation. The lead shoulder controls all ulnar deviation by rotating/pulling away from the handle (or maybe center of mass), which allows a passive unhinge from the wrists. This lead shoulder pull isn't just the lift at the bottom, but anywhere the shoulder pulls away from the handle. This is partially what I felt in the bat/racket swing when laying them down onto a plane from perpendicular. It allowed me to get my wrists fully unhinged by impact, but with the bat style swing I was lifting my shoulder too early and got way OTT.

Now I just need to figure out the correct sequencing feel to get that lead shoulder rotation earlier to let the wrists out without getting OTT. Once I can get my wrists unhinged properly, then I can just extend/supinate the club into impact. Will try to get some video of this today.

edit: Here's some videos of me trying this lead shoulder/ulnar move. The face on shows a couple isolation feels before trying to blend it in. This is a very different feeling, I almost feel like baby deer learning to walk again in some ways.
Face on: https://link.getonform.com/view?id=aYyC4jY1IGyAfOVFIyOU
DTL: https://link.getonform.com/view?id=5I1Ok38dEl1IAjmyJy4i

Edit 2: My quest to be able to get proper unhinge/ulnar is starting to become a white whale for me. I constantly play with different intents, feelings, and drills. The only thing that maybe kind of works is the thought of keeping my hands high like the below video. But when I do that I have zero depth and find it very difficult to add speed without everything breaking down.
DTL of hands high intent: https://link.getonform.com/view?id=HaCooSMmb9uRB1Yof6wW

I like what the wrists and arms are doing in the first set of videos, especially this first DTL clip.

Unfortunately, the golf swing is a complex blend of pieces. I think the next piece is to go after the top of the backswing. I have a couple of students who battle a similar pattern to yours, and after working on the arm piece, the top of the backswing makes a lot more sense. In your other sport analogy, it would be more like keeping your arms wide in tennis.

In your backswing, especially when actually hitting a ball, you really load your arms and wrists. This overload of the arms makes it harder to use the body and more likely to overuse the arms in a steeper way with a big snap down at impact. I prefer seeing the snap come from the body and the width/consistency from the arms.

So the complementary backswing goal would be getting more thoracic spine extension to help create the backswing lift and less arm bend (both wrists and trail elbow) to create the lift. It will feel like your right arm is dead straight at the top of the swing, but it won't look that way. That combo of the spine extension and arm width will help create the depth you lost in your most recent video.

Ok, I think I'm finally on to something (take number 318). Disclaimer, I know I have an absolute ton of wrist over-set which comes with the territory of wrist hyper-mobility. I think this fix will be years in the making, but I will keep working on it.

That said, I've really been struggling to connect some of the pieces with shoulder turn, unhinge, turn, etc. It's like I have two fully different swings that I just can not marry up. One with halfway decent sequencing and plane, but the release was all wrong (no unhinge). The other, my "baseball swing" allows me to easily unhinge, which is really just a lot of torso rotation with passive wrists. But when I try that I kept always getting massively OTT and have lost the other beneficial wrist conditions like motorcycle move.

I've been working on trying to blend the two and think I realized part of the problem with my "baseball swing" feel was that my rotation was always too centered, ie if 12 clock is the target, my spine angle (from top down) is in line with 3 oclock when I rotate, which gets me way OTT (I think due to my head drifting forward). But if I feel like after the pressure shift, if my spine is angled towards 3:30 or even 4 oclock when I rotate, it keeps my plane better. If I did nothing else, then the whole plane would be way out towards right field. But at around p5.7 or so, I start extending the right arm it drags that plane right back on top of the ball.

I know there's plenty of other sequencing issues with this, I flip too soon after impact, etc. But is my feeling of having the spine angled toward 4 oclock on the right track?
DTL: https://link.getonform.com/view?id=rGXLNwmnZvhmKJpHP5Io

It does look like you're trending in a good direction. Impact alignments are looking better.

If you keep the wrist angle longer into the downswing, then some good swings to look at for inspiration are Ryan Fox, or joaquin niemann. Also, I still think at this point, your goals are more related to consistency. I'd say about 80% of consistency issues are seen from the Face-on-View (caddy view), vs the Down-the-line view. I'd look there and mostly use DTL to help explain the face on story.

I wasn't really able to follow the description of the clock. But if you have something that is making sense, and gives you a good impact line and good arc width in the follow-through, then I'm all for the image. I've heard all kinds of crazy feels from my students. My philosophy is that if it works, and makes the swing look, and perform, better, then it's a good feel.

"On plane" comes from a blend of your steeps and shallows. So looking at this picture, it appears your body is on the shallow side, which means your arms have to be slightly steep to be "on plane". Tilting your spine more behind could make the body more shallow, or it could be a feeling that allows more rotation/balance. Maybe that helps. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Tyler

Yeah, I have weird ways of visualizing things I guess. When I think of the golf swing I think of everything from a bird's eye view above myself. I drew a little picture of how I visualize myself in the swing with the clock cardinal directions. So what I was saying is that I previously always envisioned rotation my torso as if the green line was perpendicular to the target, on a line with 3 oclock, which can easily turn into 2:30 and very over the top if I get out of sequence. What I really needed was to be canted to the right towards 3:30 or so, especially as I start transition. All that to say I've found my own way of visualizing and internalizing the fact that I just need to keep my head back as my hips move forward and keep my shoulders closed as my torso rotates.

https://imgur.com/a/rWQHD0S

Consistency is only part of my goal. The ultimate goal is my own "stock tour swing" which will have the consistency built it. The problem is finding the repeatable swing intents that actually resonate with me, which has been very difficult as I am very prone to rabbit holes (as you've seen).

And to tie it back around then, I gather that this is a big body shallower which allows my arms to be a little steeper. I have found with this newfound shallowness that I'm no longer closing the face from a little bit of stall and flip, since I started pushing everything to the right. Strengthening my weak left hand grip seems to have helped with that some. I've actually also been feeling how important extension of the trail arm is. Before it was always kind of just along for the ride, but now I feel like I have to start pushing/extending it away from the torso very early in the downswing to keep the grip ahead of the clubhead by impact.

Face on: https://link.getonform.com/view?id=92ur4Y23RHhEg9TU7Ty0
DTL: https://link.getonform.com/view?id=b4cT0NI6HErcIwCmRZWp

Yea, all that matters is that the visuals resonate with you and get you to make progress. I will say, that it could be helpful to imagine the changing axis instead of a fixed tilted axis. That way your image can include side bend and extension as well as just rotation.

If you're looking for the next piece, I think I would go after the body sequencing and use of more lower body to help create a better impact line. In the face on view, you can see the lead leg angled away from the foot (more like a baseball impact position). And the upper body passes it. The last swing on the clip was better, but still has room for improvement.

I think I've figured out another piece of the puzzle. I say that because I'm now starting to learn that the golf swing isn't just one feeling you can find, but a rather big puzzle and you need to learn all the pieces and how they work together.

I've always stalled my upper body rotation and let my arms go too much at impact. I was rewatching some of your videos on follow-through and came back to the Cross-Body Upper Cut. That upper cut feeling just now immediately resonated with me on how to keep my right side moving through impact and into the follow-through.

At the same time I've been working on some wrist condition issues and came to the conclusion that I really needed to lighten my trail hand grip. So now that thought is lead hand motorcycle move, lighter trail hand grip so that the grip presses and rides against the palm joint of the index finger through impact.

Ball flight at the range is better, though I'm still having a lot of issues with fat shots and shanks. The shanks are understandable to a degree, it's very new feelings, but the fat shots are an issue I need to fix.

Back in the garage on video, I was a little surprised to see that I still had a bit of that baseball impact position with my lead leg angled away from the foot, even though the my follow through is much more thorough now. Watching some videos of Morikawa in face-on, I see how much more forward his hips are than his shoulders in the follow-through, which makes me think I'm still lacking a lot in that thoracic extension and I need to feel like my belt buckle is hitting a wall in front of my lead leg.

Face On: https://link.getonform.com/view?id=6lb94vb5XNsbtnpNgats

It's definitely a puzzle. And sometimes it feels like the picture changes as you put more pieces together!

But it's mostly solvable and rewarding to work through.

The uppercut idea is a good one for you. I have a student with a similar baseball background who has had some really good success lately with the towel under the arms. It can help you avoid overloading the arms in the backswing and make it easier to get more extension in the follow through. https://www.golfsmartacademy.com/golf-instruction/hogan-towel-drill/ (for you, I'd like to see you do more of a 10-2 than a 9-3).

For working on the extension, I like a pool noodle in line with the lead shoulder. You can try to get the hips past it, but the head stays behind. It does the trick more often than not.

But you can see how different the head motion is in the finish. I put a box to help you see how long Morikawa's head stays back. That's from the extension, or the upper cut move.

Happy Golfing

No video this week, but I do have a question regarding positioning of the hands near impact. I think I've noticed something insidious that was somehow ingrained in my swing over time. Somewhere between P5 and P6, I seem activate my lead shoulder to bring my hands more in front of me. Not a lot, just enough to get my left hand in squarely front of my centerline ie belly button. As I continue to try and troubleshoot, from this far forward, I really have a lot of difficulty getting enough "up" from the left side to allow ulnar. On the other hand the only other way to get enough "up" is to not fully commit to the left side, and keep turning so that I get back to my right side a bit, resulting in the baseball-like pivot from the last post.

It seems if I really focus on keeping my left arm pinned against the pec and keeping my hands in-line with my right hip (from p6 to impact), this makes getting the "up" component much easier. By "up" I mean getting the hands exiting up and left like your Low to High videos. Does that make sense and am I on the right track that I really need to keep my hands behind, closer to my right hip? And maybe that's what you were trying to get me to build in with the towel drill?

Video always helps with these discussions. It's helpful to be able to visualize your description. But yes, on paper, the shoulders not pulling, but the core rotating and side bending should be the cause of the low to high movement. That could be an indirect benefit of the towel. My main goal for the towel drill was to avoid overloading the arms in the back swing and get a better back swing core load. It's one of my favorite generic baseball rehab drills :)

Happy golfing,

Tyler

I ended up buying a small lesson pack from a local coach, as I felt like I kind of just hit a wall without any in-person eyes-on. I think I did get some useful feels out of the first lesson, mainly really focusing on getting far more left over the lead leg. He had to physically drag my hips way further than I ever thought was possible just to get me stacked on top of that lead leg. It feels like I'm legitimately swaying a way beyond my left foot, which seems to really just get me on top of it in reality.

After working on this, I noticed that my trail leg was kind of collapsing inwards. This sparked a memory of something Dr. Kwon discusses about how both legs actually extend and straighten in the up portion of the downswing. Working on this, the feeling was almost like had to chill downwards in transition until my left hip was behind my left heel, then basically use both legs to try and jump backwards to pop a balloon that's high and behind my butt, at the same time trying to feel like I kind of just leave my head in place in space (which should help prevent an upper body lunge and keep the shoulders closed).

I still can't really blend this feeling into a full swing yet, but I think the 10-2s in the videos below look promising from a positions point of view. Definitely has gotten rid of me hanging behind from the last couple videos.
Face On: https://link.getonform.com/view?id=HFENbAhq5IBvi53A6TjD
DTL: https://link.getonform.com/view?id=QYuQnrLYWzoE81q3eCda
Face On with a dodgeball in place of a towel to work on connection: https://link.getonform.com/view?id=BydKd3G2eoKI27vs39US

Yes, it seems like you're on a good trajectory with this first lesson. Having a compliment of in person and self study can be a great way to approach learning your personal swing better. I really like the follow through here.

PS - yes, the legs straightening and the ulnar deviation complement each other. Adding more vertical motion is a weird feel for a lot of baseball and tennis players, but can really help clean up impact and release for golf.

Edit: I've answered some of my own question I think. I've been working on new grip/release feelings. Part of it is drastically limiting how much wrist hinge (radial deviation) I get in my backswing. For this new feeling I basically try to feel that I don't get any wrist hinge whatsoever. I get the feeling of my wrists at impact (with shaft lean) and basically try to hold the wrists in that position from address through the backswing and back to impact. New to this feeling, everything felt very stiff and slow and that there was no release of the club whatsoever, but results on the course were leagues better than previously with my sloppy wrist conditions that often had way too much wrist hinge at the top. As I continue to work on this, I've been able to let a little tension out of my wrists which has brought my club speed back up a bit.

Face on: https://link.getonform.com/view?id=TPjJSV4JQeTdXa1WHI0W
DTL: https://link.getonform.com/view?id=AvMKvNgudrwa5qnOotGF

It still feels very stiff compared to what I did previously, though a lot of that may just be adjustment period. I think I need to just groove this wrist feeling for a while to keep a level of control and slowly start working on some of the body pieces again after (I think my re-centering still needs a bit of work).

I do think that the wrists look significantly better. Much more classic timing compared to your older move, which was more wristy and handsy like a baseball swing. The wrist tension is something you'll want to monitor for a while, but it should settle in on a feel of more of a body hit and less of a wrist flick. Overall, the impact and follow-through look like a major improvement.

It's been a while, though I haven't stopped working on things. I did have a minor epiphany regarding the wrists recently that I just wanted to confirm a couple things. I realized I wasn't ever getting the proper amount of unhinge because I think subconsciously it felt like a vulnerable position for my wrists (the fine motor control angle) to avoid. But if I started to envision the club and more specifically the shaft like I was pointing a laser pointer, I would have to be in the fullest unhinged position. So I think I can finally unhinge more because I have a specific intentionality to get to a position I was subconsciously avoiding previously. It still feels weird though, and I think it has really messed with my sequencing and timing otherwise. But, it does feel like I have much better club control, again to liken it to controlling a laser pointer through impact (I actually kind of feel like I trace a laser pointer in line inside the ball).

Just to confirm that this is the proper level (and wrist feel) of unhinge/ulnar deviation I want (first is old pattern, second is new pattern)
https://link.getonform.com/view?id=5rGCCkqtq42D91If6hnG

Full swing still feels very weird though, kind of have to feel like the shaft is fully vertical at impact, almost like around impact I'm trying to stab the butt of the grip into the ceiling (rather than the wall behind me).
DTL full speed: https://link.getonform.com/view?id=d0DYhk9nFikyFnxk4Rm3
Face On full speed: https://link.getonform.com/view?id=2QE6b0ZvcFbzQ3w4E6u9

Hi Andrew,

Good to hear from you again. Glad you're still grinding at it! Yes, the unhinge looks better. It looks better from both views in just past impact. The unhinge move is one of the anti-flip moves. Yes, it can feel more "stiff" at first, but with time, it feels more stable. Also, the unhinge compliments more of the vertical actions in the swing. Which will be good for you as well.

Happy Golfing!
Tyler

Edited out long rambling mess of train of thought.

Apologies for my last post, it was kind of a long rambling train of thought mess. I've been working on connecting some more of your concepts and may have figured out something, I'm not quite sure. It's sort of a reconceptualization of how I grip the club and the wrists work. I made a small video trying to explain. tldr; previously thought of the wrists like a baseball bat both wrists working in the same direction at the same time. Now I'm thinking a little differently when the lead wrist works in unhinge, the trail wrist works in extension. Just kind of reframing how the trail hand sits more 'on top'.

https://link.getonform.com/view?id=T2ts4I0j3jhvUGTttPUa (with audio)

Working with this new wrist concept I've been trying to work on your concept video of how trail arm extension causes lead arm supination to close the club face. It almost feels like a catapult now. Near delivery I start pressing on the grip with the index finger palm pad of my trail hand directly towards the ball, initially aiding lead wrist unhinge and then causing lead arm supination. My club head speed has gone up drastically (7 iron was ~87mph, now ~95mph), launch angle has gotten way better (7iron was ~12*, now ~15-16*). However, my low point control is suffering since my shaft lean is much more moderate now, but that's to be expected and probably something I think I just need to work through.

Is this concept of getting a much more active trail arm extension through impact (rather than dragged out passively) on the right track? It almost feels like I'm shotputting (or throwing a dart) the trail arm towards the ball from ~p6ish. My main miss with this new feel seems to be if I don't get enough lead hip depth in the downswing to cause more of an in and up handpath (on the upstroke), the supination just doesn't happen and I hit a huge block to the right.

Face On: https://link.getonform.com/view?id=myLOlfGGnTf4IUjgOyFk
DTL: https://link.getonform.com/view?id=IrcH5D8RZBQ91fx9csFv

Edit: Holy cow I really think I'm on to something with this new grip feel. I played some sim-golf with a buddy (still too cold here) and had the best ball-striking of my life. I'm normally a mid-high 90s player, but I was only +3 through the last nine we played. I know it's only sim golf, but in terms of ball striking have never had anywhere close to that level of accuracy or consistency.

No worries about the rambling posts, sometimes that's what is needed to process all the crazy thoughts we're running through!

Wrist video:
I like the second version better, it's still lacking some arm rotation while it ulnar deviates, so it looks a little off. But it does look much closer than the previous version.

Arm motion and low point:
The arm action looks better, to me, the big cause of low point issues is the lack of extension of your thoracic spine. It shows up in the backswing and the through swing as lateral movement of the head (to the right in the backswing and left in follow-through). But that can be a tricky one to self coach. For someone who's used to staying in flexion, it will feel wrong or difficult. But it's a big part of what keeps the head more still and uses more vertical force patterns of the legs. The arm action will definitely help your club face control, which is probably what showed up with that great simulator round!

Happy Golfing,
Tyler

Edit: Original question was regarding supination and open club face if my weight gets on my toes. I think I answered my own question that I get blocks when I get on my toes from a combo of a higher shaft angle leading to open club face and shifting the low point more forward than where I expect it to be, delaying the release a tiny bit.

Circling back to a feel related question, I've found my best success at least with irons, when I feel like I'm controlling the radius with my left arm. By that I feel like if I use my left shoulder to control the arc of the clubhead so that the ball is at the furthest point on the arc, ie at the point where the clubhead stops going in to out and starts going out to in. Now I know that's not what actually happens at all, since at speed the clubhead continues on the path much longer, but from a feel perspective it feels that's where I'm putting it. Is this a feel that resonates at all?

I also think now that I'm starting to get real speed and shaft lean, I'm starting to get more D plane interaction that I need to figure out.

Sounds like some good discoveries there. I think the feeling of the lead arm controlling low point and moving more out through impact will help your release. As long as the body is turning early enough, then it won't actually be going out through impact, but the extra width could help your flat spot. So I'd say that's a good feel. You should probably monitor it, but I'd say you should keep it in the rolodex.

Happy Golfing,
Tyler

Still grinding away over here. I think I've finally figured out how to tame this pernicious lead arm pull that has been sabotaging my swing. Thinking back I've always had a bit of a late lead arm pull that always ends up stalling my chest rotation.

This new feel is probably only a bridge swing feel until I can ingrain it, but I essentially kind of fight the lead arm with my trail arm. By using a bit of trail arm extension and external rotation, essentially feeling like I'm trying to pull my left arm out of it's socket to get that deep left shoulder stretch, I can actually keep the handle on the trail side which allows me to rotate my chest through the ball. So essentially I feel like I'm trying to pull my left arm out of its socket, and then chill until delivery position and try to continue to drive the body/arms through the ball with a body driven topspin forehand feel finishing into p8.

When I work it well it turns my ugly hooks into nice baby draws. The downside right now is that I really haven't figured out how to maintain this feeling with driver, I keep hitting really down on the ball and launching low spinners at ~5-8 degrees VLA.

Face on driver video explaining my feel to myself so I can remember it for my next practice session:
https://link.getonform.com/view?id=kqWDuAFTVmSXVNEPdYlK

Also still not getting quite enough forward shift of my pelvis I think leading to that baseball finish you noticed before. Another thing to work on.
DTL 7i: https://link.getonform.com/view?id=YU5Ui3b0lhpbjIPhaJGP
Face On 7i: https://link.getonform.com/view?id=6XYMbQQj2XjaLjhIXGbH

Anything else glaring that you can see from these videos or might suggest I work on as I continue to work on ingraining undoing this lead arm pull?

Sorry, was traveling out of the country and the clips were too big to download with their wifi.

The lead arm pull and the trail arm throw often go together and make the diagnosis harder to pin down. Usually I work on both and one emerges as the main problem, but often it's little keys for each that help a golfer break the pattern.

As far as the lead arm pull can also be connected to lead arm rotation. Lead arm rotation is something I can personally struggle with at times. Basically, you would need to try and delay the external rotation of the lead arm. A good way to monitor this is keeping the back of the left elbow facing away from you longer. For some people, this gives a feeling of more connection and helps with the lead shoulder not pulling. To accompany the lead arm internal rotation, the shoulder naturally has more of a lift and less of a pull down.

BTW, when you first try this, make sure to put the shank guard up, it can cause impact location to move more toward the toe. This is helpful for people who hit it on the toe, which is naturally a complaint with lead arm pullers.

Happy Golfing,
Tyler

Thanks, Tyler. It's funny right before this I played my absolute worst round of golf in probably 4 or 5 years. It made me step back to try and diagnose. Your feedback about rotation of either (or both) of the arms got me watching and re-watching a lot of your videos and a lot of practice time working on positions and feels. I think I realized I had a lot of problems, the three main ones being:
1) external rotation of the lead arm (I was trying to go maximal extension which requires some external rotation),
2) internal rotation of the trail arm,
3) and the biggest of all, a late stalled pivot and then throwing the arms at the ball which lead to my current block/hook miss pattern (and still overdraw when struck well).

Edit: removed some stuff as some videos answered my questions, but spawned more things to work on.

I think as I work on this and try to diagnose, it's all due to a lack of wipe movement. Getting the trail arm into external rotation necessary for the wipe prevents my trail arm throwing early and getting internal rotation (which I think is the current cause of all of my hooks). The wipe also shifts where I start unhinging far more forward toward the target. I worked on nothing but the wipe today and accompanied it with more lead arm internal rotation (elbow to target) and seem to unlock a few things. Though it's still new enough that it brought in some other problems, mainly a lot of shanks and a bit of a flip.

I'm guessing there is a lot of low point stuff I need to work on in conjunction with the wipe (since it's all still so new). For a low point feeling, I had a few unicorn feeling shots where I actually got proper launch angle when I envisioned my arm and club at maximum extension/width just barely brushing the turf in front of my lead foot (basically trying to get a straight line from shoulder through the arm to clubhead inline with the lead foot from a face-on view.)

Hey Andrew,

Good summary there. I think the wipe, and your arm rotation patterns reveal the biggest source of your inconsistency.

New problems can mean you're on the right track. The shanks can happen when working on the wipe because it moves the widest point later. Sometimes the low point has to be recalibrated with a yoga block, or shank gate. Or with a complimentary feel for avoiding moving into your toes, or too down into the ball.

The flip is interesting because usually, the wipe is part of the anti-flip recipe. So I'm having a hard time visualizing it. Maybe add a face on video of the wipe with flip?

Sounds like you stumbled upon the same idea as my lead foot low point drill. It could be a good visual for you!

Happy Golfing,
Tyler

Edit: Deleted all of my original post as outdated. I just went on our Summer guys' golf trip and had both the worst round of my life, followed up the next day by one of the best rounds of my life. I think I pieced a few conceptual things together and just have one quick concept question:

I know from your videos that trail arm extension creates a flat spot as it relates to vertical low-point control, but does it also have a similar effect for horizontal club path (ie when looking top-down from a fully overhead view)? I think I always kind of just conceptualized the club head path as a perfectly consistent circular path. So if the clubhead traversed 90 degrees from P6 to roughly impact (sort of an overhead down (or your MyView), then from there it would immediately travel another 90 degrees back to p8.

But as I played around with trail arm extension through the wipe and impact I think I noticed that it sort of flattens out the club head path to more of a U-shaped arc (again in the horizontal top-down view)? Am I on to something or imagining this?

Or to put it another way, without the trail arm the club would swing a perfectly circular arc, but near impact we use trail arm extension to basically create a pause on that circular arc so that the head temporarily travels in more of a straight line creating a flat spot in both the horizontal (top-down) and vertical (face on) orientations?

Missed this response earlier.

Yes, the flat spot is both high to low as well as in to out. So the arm motions help make the club path more gradual in both directions. It's not just the trail arm extension, the lead arm extension and blocking also help the flat spot. So yes, you're on to something...

Happy Golfing,
Tyler

Thanks, Tyler. I've posted a short video question below (no need to download, I think the web player should suffice) regarding flat spot and "up and in" handle movement. Essentially, at least how I feel it, early flat spot creation is due to continued rotation through P6 and P7 (rather than my usual stall) to get the handle moving "up and in". And, late flat spot is maintained a bit with some of the trail arm extension, essentially feeling like the club head is getting thrown straight down the target line from slightly before impact through well after? This trail arm extension piece, almost feels like a very brief and momentary holding-off of the clubhead moving on an arc.

I do mention that I am hooking quite a bit, and I think upon further reflection that's just my lead arm defaulting back to some external rotation, too many things to monitor at the same time since I haven't fully ingrained keeping the lead arm in internal rotation.

https://link.getonform.com/view?id=g72R3ffbZUAbLaR8Sl7G

Saw your video, the key thing with the rotation helping the flat spot is the direction that it is rotating helps move the handle up and in. So it's not just rotation, but the spine moving in extension and side bend with rotation (all together called negative torsion). That movement with the straightening of the arms creates the flat spot.

With the hook, it does look like your trail hand grip is extremely strong, so checking the club face at p6 from the DTL might be a good thing to check in on.

See the picture posted and how much the V on the trail hand is turned sideways on the club.